Thursday, March 25, 2010

Red Steel 2: A Concern

Red Steel 2 Red Steel 2 w/ MotionPlus
Red Steel 2 released on Tuesday this week, and the reviews are coming in for the game pretty steadily now.

Red Steel 2's current review score average, on is 82.00% based on 18 reviews.
So, it seems like the game is pretty solid and most reviewers are having fun with it.

Now, rewind back June of 2009.

Another FPS was being released on the Nintendo Wii, that game was The Conduit.

About four days before The Conduit's release date, it broke into's "Top 100" games as for sales.

On June 22, 2009, The Conduit broke in's "Top 50".

On June 23, 2009, The Conduit was at #29.

On June 24, 2009, The Conduit crossed into's "Top 20", making it at least to #18.

My Concern:
I think Red Steel 2 may not be selling very well, if's rankings mean anything, when comparing it to The Conduit.

I've been following Red Steel 2's rank, both the game alone, and the WM+ bundle, for a while now on
It was only on Tuesday, that Red Steel 2 broke into's "Top 100".

Now, I know that this brief snapshot in time doesn't mean Red Steel 2 will sell poorly.
I just think it is concerning, seeing as neither Red Steel 2 the game by itself, nor Red Steel 2 w/ WM+, have made it into's "Top 50", before/after its release yet.

Do you think Red Steel 2 will perform better or worse than The Conduit overall?
If you've purchased Red Steel 2 already, what are your impressions of the game?


  1. I bought the m+ bundle from Amazon, it came in Tuesday afternoon. This game is SOLID, a definite improvement over the first and the reviews I've read are generally in the mid to high 8's. Some reviews are already calling this one of the Wiis best games. I've only played for about an hour,
    but I agree this is a very engaging, polished game. Do yourself a favor and pick it up.

  2. I've been following a lot of "hardcore" Wii games on Amazon for a while now. From what I've learned, the ranking doesn't have much impact as it did before.

    At the time, The Conduit was releasing in a relatively dry period. There weren't many games that would even be in the top 100.

    There were also significantly fewer deals on Amazon at the time than right now. Right now, there are many deals. Some are preorder credit and some are random temporary price drops.

    Also I believe the rankings are inaccurate because it counts both SKU's on the Wii as separate units. If they were counted together, Red Steel 2 would be higher on the ranking chart. This logic of course doesn't apply for Just Cause 2, however, because those SKU's are on different platforms.

    Just my thoughts. Looking forward to an update...that is, if Gonintndo posts it. heh

  3. Darnit, darnit, darnit! This game! Why'd this game have to go and be good. The reviews are very compelling. I didn't budget for this. I've been wracking my brain trying to figure out how I can get MH3, SMG2 and Other M and then this game just comes along and throws everything out of whack. Whats going on here!?!?

  4. Maybe it's just that the game isn't as good as some reviews made it to be? ;)

    I tried it, and then watched it played from start to finish, and I didn't like it.
    I can explain more, if someone is interested.

  5. I have no illusions that this game will sell well. I bought it first day and have put an hour or so into it (couldn't last night, had a guitar to dismantle). But it has several things going against it.

    1) Wii perception is lower now than it was even at Summer last year
    2) Sega pushed The Conduit and Ubisoft gave up on Red Steel 2 months before it even came out
    3) LOTS of high profile games in the first half for all platforms. I think the Nintendo faithful that would buy this is busy buying Pokemon on DS. And I think if most gamers had the choice between RS2 and GOW3, they will pick GOW.
    4) While Red Steel 1 sold well, it has been universally panned (maybe a little too harshly) and it seems that most people are skeptical of the sequal based on that.

    This game should sell at least 1.5-2 million copies and if it stays this good 3+. But it won't because fanboys refuse to acknowledge that there are good Wii games for fear that it will make them "less hardcore".

    As for my impressions, this game is really, REALLY good. The controls have a little bit of a learning curve, but once you get them and start upgrading your Katana, the battles get really interesting and very satisfying.

    Visually this is by far the best game on Wii for two reasons, the incredible art and the fluidity. I think developers should take note that sacrificing your framerate for the sake of pushing polygons is a detriment to the visual quality of your game. Red Steel 2 is said to be locked at 60 FPS and everything about it is the most fluid I have ever seen. It is really incredible.

    I think that LucasArts needs to go to Ubisoft and license whatever they have used to make this game and leverage it into a Jedi Knight series game. I think with Wii Motion plus, a good artstyle and this engine locked into a 60FPS, that would be on bad-ass game.

  6. @ Sariachan
    Yes I would like more detail. What I would say is that not all games appeal to all people, if you played and didn't like this game that is fine. I personally hated the MH3 demo and gave it away already. But from playing it, I would say that it is one of the best games on Wii, and certainly one of the best third party games on Wii along with Muramasa and probably (thought I didn't play them) Grand Slam Tennis and Tiger Woods Golf.

  7. Hardcore stuff can be good but will never sell well on the Wii. Anyone remember the kick-ass beat em up, Madworld? Solid game overall but not in sales. That is just how it is.

    If it had a commercial with a loving family playing it with hot cocoa in their hands, and the two young boys going at it while the parents looks at each other with glee and happiness with a lame tagline like, "Our boys dispute their arguments with the Wii now, on Red Steel 2!", and so on, then the milf's of suburbia would buy it.

    Unfortunately, this isn't the case.

  8. @ keith
    If they did that, people would be REALLY pissed off since there is no multiplayer at all.

    I agree that unless the name of the product has permeated the casual to casual/hardcore crowd it is tough to sell a hardcore Third Party Wii game, and have begun to put most of the game on gamers themselves.

    Nintendo gets some blame for making an underpowered console. Third party's are at fault for focusing on product that won't sell like On Rails Shooters. But mostly gamers are at fault for wilfully not taking advantage of what good games are available. Many spout the line how the Wii is a toy with no games for "gamers", and that it isn't about graphics. Once you politely inform them of all the wonderful "Gamer Games" on Wii like Madworld, Muramasa, No More Heroes, Red Steel 2 a gamer will belittle these games as inferior for no other reason than they are on Wii.

    I guess all any "hardcore gamer" ever wants is a first or third person shooter.

  9. are we going to keep ignoring the elephant in the room people? I got the first game at 10 Euros and the VAST majority of Ubisoft's games at the 10-20Eu price range. Do you ever think I will be willing to spend 60Eu on a game published by the company with one of the most ridiculous devaluation rates ever?


  10. @Delaware- I didn't know about the lack of multiplayer, lol. Oops on me. :D

  11. @Anonymous
    But that happens to almost every publisher save for Nintendo. There is a very predictable curve where it sells for (using Wii prices) $50 USD for the first 6 months to a year dropping to $40 then to $30 and possibly under depending on sales, and this is just as pronounced if not more so on HD consoles. You could get Assassigns Creed for $30 less than a year after it's release. This is a non-issue.

  12. Yes but especially Ubisoft's games on the Wii get devalued much faster than one year. Ok it took a year for Red Steel 1 to drop to 10Eu but you get a 50% reduction in less than 2 months in most games that company produces so I (along with other people) are trained by this company to wait a bit in order to gain even 40Eu from EACH game we buy and that is a lot of money if you buy a lot of games.

    Atlus and Nintendo do not have pricedrops and Atlus don't get more sales because they mostly got niche games and zero advertising but they NEVER complained from the sales they got because they mostly achieve their sales projections.

    It is a joke during an economic crisis to buy a game that you KNOW it will sell at a pathetically reduced price on day one. I got madworld at 20Eu and now it costs SEVEN, how stupid do you think that makes me?

    Bottom line is this. Only the casual flock to such games on day one because they know little about the company and do not buy many games to begin with. The people who play games regularly though, have enough games on queue, that can afford postponing playing a game for a while if that means spending MUCH less money on it. Hardcore gamers are not expected to buy this game now, simple as that.

  13. well you can get it 20 percent off at gamestop. wii20

  14. @delawaregamer: here you are (I wrote similar things in another website, just to make it faster... even because English isn't my native language ^^' ).

    I played Red Steel 2 only a bit, like 10-15 minutes in two different sessions, since I didn't like the control system (while I loved the one in Wii Sports Resort) and other things like the developers using live-action movies in a stylized game.
    I hate when elements in a game or any other work of fiction which isn't a parody break the suspension of disbelief, it's a pretty serious concept/design mistake in my opinion.

    Other than that, default options are horrible, especially for the tiny dead zone, and you've to spend several minutes to try figuring out how to change them to play it a little more comfortable.
    Anyway, after that it works better, but the camera is linked to the sword while it shouldn't (swords aren't' guns and would required a different camera, even in first person, to really work), and the result is confusing and makes it not so funny to use the sword, at least form me.

    It's like they put swords in a FPS without changing its mechanics, it's a weird effect. I didn't like it, and even if when you lock-on it's fixed, I don't always play with it activated since I like to move with more freedom in many instances.

    Furthermore, they stressed the "motion controls" factor in this game yet they included combos and other actions you must do with buttons: controls like these are incoherent and confuse the player, imho.
    For example, there are 3-4 types of doors in the game, and only one of them you must open with "motion control", while all the other one with the A button.
    Also, most actions are done using the A button, even when "motion control" would have been better for them (you still use gestures for a couple of things, though, but that's not enough and it's still not coherent no matter how you put it).

    Since I couldn't bring myself to have fun with it, I watched my boyfriend play through the whole game, in normal mode, and he completed it in only around 7 hours without having fun at all (there are reasons he had to complete it, or he would have given up after the first few hours).

    At first he read what missions where about, then he gave up since they are all quite shallow, repetitive and frankly boring, and you don't need to read texts to beat the game, since it's fairly linear and simple.
    I want to stress SIMPLE: you enter in the mission room, activate missions, go out and all things you've to do are laid in front of you or really near, with a green arrow for when you've to go on an already very simple and unimaginative map.

    Areas are few and they aren't so beautiful, despise the good art style, since there isn't much care for details and elements repeat themselves way too often. For example, the white paper sheets flowing in the wind, which are all exact the same anywhere they appear.
    Also, natural areas seem artificial and "dead", since there aren't animals at all, not even insects or birds, which is quite strange in a game which has canyons and caverns among its settings.
    There are just a couple of beautiful landscapes, one around the middle point of the game, and one just before the final battle.

    And there are some faults in the graphics, for example shadows placed under textures, near at least one tree, and animations aren't so good.

    Gameplay-wise, enemies have little AI if any at all, at least in normal mode, and there are not more than about 10 types of them, bosses included. Also, the flying robots look out of place.

    Finally, music is good but really repetitive and with few tracks, and the Italian dubbing is horrible (but I don't think you care about it ;) ).

  15. @Anonymous from March 25, 2010 2:48AM:
    "I've only played for about an hour,
    but I agree this is a very engaging, polished game. Do yourself a favor and pick it up."

    I do plan on getting it soon. Have you been able to play it more than an hour? If so, what do you think of it now?

    @Anonymous from March 25, 2010 3:46AM:
    "I believe the rankings are inaccurate because it counts both SKU's on the Wii as separate units."

    I'm not sure how it affects it, but I agree that it does. I think we'll know more in a week or so.

    "Whats going on here!?!?"

    I ask that almost every day, I'm still waiting on an answer!

    Is your b/f a reviewer? Is that why he "had to complete it"?

    Thanks a lot for the detailed description and your/his issues with the game. Seems like a fairly reasonable explanation as for your dislikes of it.

    I really don't see the game selling more than 1.5 million. I think it's going to be on par with The Conduit's sales right now, hopefully I'm wrong about that.

    I think hardcore games could sell extremely well on the Wii, with the proper marketing.
    You're example is a good way of marketing Red Steel 2, if the game had some form of multi-player in it.

    @Anonymous from March 25, 2010:
    Very true about most 3rd Party games. LucasArts' Lego and Star Wars games I think are the best examples of games dropping extremely fast in price after they release.

    Assassin's Creed and MGS4 both come to mind on the PS3. I agree, price drops are a natural thing, but Nintendo seems to have found a market strategy that is working brilliantly for them with the Wii right now.

    @Anonymous from March 25, 2010 12:44pm:
    Thanks for sharing the discount code!

    Everybody, thanks for the comments and adding to the discussion!

  16. @Sariachan
    Thanks for the specifics, but I cannot say I agree with a single point. I am early in the game, so that might change. For the most part, I feel you criticisms can be said of almost any game made...ever, from repetitive environments to a lack of animal life. The towns are devoid of life for the most part, that would be a good change to add some NPCs that would scatter when stuff went down.

    I think the visuals are as stunning as anything I have seen. Personally, I find detail over-rated when PLAYING a game. When playing two different COD's MW on PS3 or WAW on Wii, it was never the detail during play that struck me, it was the fluidity and RS2 nails that.

    I also disagree on controls, I play on the Advanced default with Semi-Auto lock. I have had no camera problems while using the sword. If you lock on with the Z trigger it locks your camera in place.

  17. I recently rented the game.
    It's ok.

    I dunno.. It all feels kinda pointless and nothing is keeping me motivated to keep going.

    But I am... I figure it will all make sense eventually.
    But as of right now I'm just confused.

    Battle system is fun though, that's for sure.
    I think that's the big seller for this title, but I don't think it's enough to warrant a purchase.

    Maybe I'll give more detailed responses soon, but as of right now, this is all I have.

  18. Interesting thoughts ArakniD.
    I've wondered how much replay value the game will have.

    I've also heard a wide range of the number of hours it takes to complete for a simple play-through.

    I hope you end up enjoying the game, and thanks for the comment!

  19. Ok everyone if you see this please help. I think the game was fanatical. absolutly wonderful. The only problem i had was that once i beet the last level i couldnt do anything except the challanges. Now most are thinking thats what the game is for, but here is my question. I wasnt fully upgraded when i beet the last level, And i cant go back and upgrade fully, can someone help?
    email me at
    if you know how to upgrad after you beet the game.


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